Why am I upset with Richard Johnson?

[CharlieBrown]

Just for the record.... because some folks wanted to know.

Aside from some minor annoyance that my recent attempts at getting materials to repair my broken kamado were blown off because they were "too busy," there is another big reason I am upset with Mr. Johnson: he has not fulfilled his promises to me.

Preface: Richard’s original webpage, when I discovered him, was a single page with a very bad low-res picture of a mosaic tiled Kamado and his phone number. That was in 1997/98. Over the next year and a half I redeveloped his site into more or less what you see today, though it has changed cosmetically and technologically (better forums scripts available now, etc.) Over that time I set up and moderated the forum, trying to keep some of the more outrageous flame wars (Kamado vs BGE, etc.) under control, and doing my share of cheerleading for the Kamado Company. I was a member of the "team".

In mid-1999 the Kamado Company was written up in the Sacramento Business Journal as an entrepreneurial success story. One of the points of the article was that the website was their only marketing tool, and that it had been highly successful. My name or work was not mentioned in the article. I decided it was time to receive payment for my work, as it was apparent that the shares of Kamado Stock I was originally promised would not be coming anytime soon.

Richard could have said “Sorry, no thanks.” and I would have had to go on my merry way, since we had NOT had any specific agreement before that time, aside from some vague promises of my 1000’s of shares in Kamado Company “stock”. But he didn’t have anyone else to leech off of yet, and he still wanted a lot of work done, and apparently wanted me to stick around, (which is what I wanted as well). I had entered this situation voluntarily, as I was excited and enthusiastic about the product. But as time wore on, I found I was being taken for granted, and was being issued orders to change/add things to the website on a regular basis. So I spoke up.

Here a few selected emails from that time period:
___________________________________________________________________

From: Charlie Brown
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999
To: Richard Johnson
Subject: Re: Press release

>>How do we get you more involved?>

Well, I took the old logo down and put up the Red K on the homepage. I want to clean it up a little more and add a nice drop-shadow. Also want to change the purple buttons to black, as purple clashes.

Already got compliments on the red K logo..... another suggestion was to have that logo pic change-- alternate between red, black, blue, green... that would be snazzy.

As to get getting more involved. I thought about it a lot and while I am interested in distributing, and have some good ideas, I don't have the capital to get started. However, money isn't the only thing of value I have to offer.

What if you were to send me a bunch of kamados as compensation for all the work I've done on the website over the last year and a half? And then from here on out "pay" me with kamados for webmastering the site. That way, if I wanted to, I would have product that I could place in various locations and start the business rolling, and I would have something that I could sell (or give or keep) as payment for my work. That would accomplish many things-- I would be receiving something that has far greater value to me than it costs you to produce, I would have an inventory to start distributing these things, thus helping get the product out to the people, and I would feel that I have something of value to work for.

Everyone wins. What do you think?

--Chaz
___________________________________________________________________

From: Richard Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 1999
To: Charlie Brown
Subject: Re: Gas K draft

My thought is a combination delivery, sales, and representative. Need an escalera to make it easy. A pick up is nice cuz of the advertising of the K's sitting there.

We can set up stores, possibly restaurants and work with them by demo's, drop shipments etc. First one would be Julian (they also have a store in San Diego somewhere.

We can agree on a delivery charge (for the stores), commission as a factory representative....usually 7 percent of the invoice amount to stores (including residuals orders). We can set a wholesale price and any direct sales (retail) you might make would allow a much larger profit etc.

Kamados will be coming into LA by the boat load. We must set up a warehouse/distribution center there soon.

More later.

GET THE GAS ON WEBSITE...........ITS A GOOD PRODUCT, I TELL YOU!

___________________________________________________________________

From: Charlie Brown
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 1999
To: Richard Johnson
Subject: Expressing Ourselves More Clearly

Hi Richard,

I guess I wasn't really expressing myself clearly enough.

What I proposed is compensation for the work that I've done and continue to do. I thought payment with kamados was a clever compromise (the cost to value ratio). I would like to see some number of kamados delivered free of charge in exchange for the last 15 months of labor, and further kamados delivered at some interval for future labor. What I was looking to negotiate was the exact quantity and intervals.

Your ideas sound fine for someone wanting to leap into distributing as a profession, but I'm not looking for a cheap way into distributing, certainly not looking for more work to do, I'm looking for compensation for work I already do.

My idea was that these kamados would be mine to do with as I pleased. If I want to plant flowers in them, give them to family or
friends or sell them on consignment, they would be mine, as payment for webmastering the kamado website-- no other ties and no other contingencies.

I am having difficulty feeling comfortable continuing in our current situation. I feel it's not in my interest to invest the time for little or nothing return. Please let me know what you think.

Thanks,

Chaz
___________________________________________________________________

From: Richard Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 1999
To: Charlie Brown
Subject: Re: Expressing Ourselves More Clearly

Wow!

Please find my responses below.

>>> Hi Richard,
>>>I guess I wasn't really expressing myself clearly enough. What I proposed is compensation for the work that I've done and continue to do. Cash money is fine, but I though payment with kamados was a clever compromise (the cost to value ratio). I would like to see some number of kamados delivered free of charge in exchange for the last 15 months of labor, and further kamados delivered at some interval for future labor. What I was looking to negotiate was the exact quantity and intervals

................ I am open to your suggestion as to the number of Kamados you feel is fair for compensation for earlier work. While I think it was best to negotiate this before your last 15 months of labor, we certainly can at this date. Just let me know what you think is reasonable or fair.

Your ideas sound fine for someone wanting to leap into distributing as a profession, but I'm not looking for a cheap way into distributing, certainly not looking for more work to do,

............................ Sorry, I just thought it would be an opportunity for you and certainly not to create more work for you to do.

I'm looking for compensation for work I already do

................. OK, I understand

My idea was that these kamados would be mine to do with as I pleased. If I want to plant flowers in them, give them to family or
friends,

..............................Certainly no problem here...................

or sell them on consignment, they would be mine, as payment for webmastering the kamado
website-- no other ties and no other contingencies

...........................Here, there are certain factors you (we) must considider when you sell any product including the Kamado. Such as warranties, other store relationships, territories, existing contracts, resale permits and the like. It is difficult to not have "no ties" and "no other contingencies" when dealing in this area. Nothing difficult but we must take this into consideration.

I am having difficulty feeling comfortable continuing in our current situation. I feel it's not in my interest to invest the time for little or no return

..................Sure I (all of us here understand.)

Richard

PS......please forget my message below.........does seem like a lot of work rather than an opportunity!
___________________________________________________________________

From: Charlie Brown
To: Richard Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 1999
Subject: RE: Expressing Ourselves More Clearly



Cool. Well, I calculated that I spend between 16 and 30 hours per month working on the site. At $25/hr (very low price webmaster) that's anywhere from $400 to $750 work. Hours worked varies depending on what's going on on the site of course. So that's about a #5 or a #7 per month, or a fully loaded (SS bands/grill/Gas/Cart Custom) every other month. So I thought a decent starting point would be 10 Kamados in varying configurations and then one per month from here on out. (Opening bid).

What do you think?

Chaz
______________________________________________________________________ _

[At this point I set up the Gas Kamado web pages for Richard.
______________________________________________________________________ _

From: Richard Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 1999
To: Charlie Brown
Cc: BILL NICHOLS; Brad Olson
Subject: Re: Expessing Ourselves More Clearly

Wow, Wow!

What a nice job on the Gas. We all appreciate what you did and really like the way it looks et al.

As to what I think about your opening bid......I think it is fine and surely fair. There are a couple of things, however. We need a little time to "fill" the earlier calculations. Our first shipment is in customs and not even cleared. But as I mentioned earlier, they are coming by the Boatload....so if you are not in too much of a hurry, you can expect the 10 shortly.

Also, as I mentioned, you must consider our contractual relations and "marketing plan"..... I am sure you will and we are not concerned.

I feel, and I hope you do too, that your proposal is a better foundation and relationship. I always want to "pay my way," and never want to get something for nothing....so to speak. I have done without, before getting indebted. Of course, I have accepted many favors, but I have in the end tried to out do any received.

Again, you have outdone our expectations on the gas site.

Carry on (get some sleep!)

Richard

___________________________________________________________________

[A few emails were exchanged a month later regarding my disapproval of some would-be distributor using my website graphics in their advertising efforts without asking first. Petty, yes, but at this point I had still received nothing and was trying to protect my interests. I also received an email from Brad Olson (vice-president?) in mid-September 1999, essentially saying they were all busting their butts and to be patient, and “someday” it would all pay off, just not right now.]
___________________________________________________________________

Date: 9/18/1999
From: Richard Johnson
To: Charlie Brown:


Chaz,

It was my mistake trying to have Brad handle your demands. This was
between ourselves and I will give it to you as straight and honest as
I know how............

We work on a VERY close budget. We do not contract for anything we
can not pay for or budget for. We officers (Deborah, Brad, Bill and
I) do NOT take salaries. To the contrary, we all continue to invest
our time and money. We are working for interest in the company. When
I originally set up the website I did it myself because I did not have
the money to hire a "webmaster." At no time have I (we) had or have
money to pay for a professional webmaster. I thought you could be
compensated by an interest in our company for your efforts. To a
small degree, but like all of us.

I was surprised to learn of your demands of last month. At the same
time I can understand your wanting, at this later time, something
tangible. But you must realize that we did not originally budget for or are in a financial position at this time to meet your unexpected
request for cash or Kamados. I offered, through Brad, the best we can
do at this time Clearly, no specific time schedule. You apparently
found this unacceptable. I think this is where we are today.

So, I will try again..........with no time schedule, we will obligate
ourselves to give you 10 #7 Kamados from Indonesia. If I said
somewhere I would deliver them, we will. If not, I am sure you can
have your brother pick them up or deliver them to you.

I want to emphasize that this offer for Kamados and our obligation to
fulfill CAN NOT be conditioned on a time for delivery or pick-up of
Kamados. We will fulfill our obligation and budget at OUR schedule.
If by chance you agree, I beg of you to not later demand or otherwise
insist on delivery. I do not want to be obligated to you or anyone
else and will fulfill our commitments as soon as OUR company
reasonably can.

If you can not live with this, I can understand and certainly do not want to influence you. I hope you can understand our position as well. Remember, if it matters, none of us are taking a salary and ALL of us are working at least 12 hours a day.....in my case, every day. We have
definite company goals and we will reach them. We wanted you to be
part of them. But on the other hand, it is tough to keep a vision
alone....I know all about it.

In summary........The offer of 10 Kamados stands, just no demands. No
future obligations until we complete this obligation. I.e. we can
not, at this time, afford the costs of website work. If you feel that
there is legitimate copyrighted material on our website you are
certainly free to have it removed. I only ask that you let me know
what material so we can agree that it should be removed.

Sincerely,

Richard
___________________________________________________________________


Eh, well… Richard actually delivered TWO #7 kamados.

They are very nice and holding up well (I gifted them to family).

As for the remaining 8 kamados…? Well, someone else came along who would take over the site/forum voluntarily, so I’m still waiting to this day…

...and that is the beginning and end of my dispute with Mr. Johnson. It's very disappointing because all I ever wanted was for them to flourish and prosper (and myself as well, of course...sigh).

[JasmineFilter]

RJ's statements and logic are simply stunning. No wonder he can't run a business. He never buys anything he can't pay for? Unbelievable....

[curly]

[Porkchop]

how can you obligate yourself to provide something and leave the time within which you provide it completely open ended. it makes zero sense. did he intend from the beginning to welsh? who knows? it sounds like he intended to deliver, then, once he got someone else to do it, decided that his obligation really amounted to NO obligation.

see, that way, you can keep your word, and at the same time not. there's a possibility he will one day deliver the K's, so how can it be said he didn't break his word? maybe he had his lawyer draw that up; altho that's like a snake taking snake lessons...

yknow, the only way a person would take an open ended offer like that would be if they totally trusted them. you have to have a relationship with that person. you weren't just SCREWED, you were BETRAYED... normally, i'd say you were a fool to take such a deal in the first place, but given the rest, and the fact that you are surely a billion times smarter than me, i'd just say you were stabbed in the back...
_________________
Expand Q Consciousness
http://porkchopbbq.freehostia.com/

[CharlieBrown]

I had a lot more trust in people back then.

In fact, all I could really do is hope that he was as good as his word.

Technically, he could still honor his committments.

[Porkchop]

[curly]

Yeah, you seem to have been his first big victim...that we know of, that is.

Technically, he is honoring his word until he dies and you don't have the K's. Then, if the company is still selling K's, the company is technically still honoring his word until it goes defunct. So, you may never be techically screwed

Heck, I feel better about him now

[JasmineFilter]

By the way, this was a really nice and well told story of how Richard Johnson screwed someone out of a large sum of money. Maybe Tony could put together an organized version of his tale all in one place. I think that this forum will have more credibility if there is more organization and documentation of RJ's crimes vs. RJ bashing. Maybe we need a category "This is My Story" where the nasty ugly tales of what RJ has done can be placed in one place.

[CharlieBrown]

Fortunately I didn't lose any cash out of pocket... just my time and effort.

I agree... I would like to hear more testimonials like this, or like Porkchop has set up on his site. Stories laid out chronologically with supporting documentation. I think it would just help to make things more specific and clear.

[foxhound]

Yes, very slippery on RJ's part. The comment that the officers are working 12 hours a day without pay is hard to believe. They all have living expenses, the Johnson's raising three daughters, money is most likely being taken out of the business, its just not ledgered as salaries but as something non taxable or easily disguised.

My question is what has happened to the other corp officers, Brad and Bill I think. My guess is there has been a rift or falling out with them. As I recall, one of them was Deborah's brother-in-law? Does anyone know that story?

[CharlieBrown]

Regarding the working conditions, and general environment at the time… here are some excerpts of emails I received at the time from people involved. . .

This first is from Brad Olson. It’s the one I had left out of the earlier post, the one that Richard followed up with his final declaration of obligation:
________________________________

From: Brad Olson
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 12:27 AM
To: webmaster@kamado.com
Subject: Re: Hi

Hey Chaz,

Thanks for the reply. As I previously wrote, things were starting to look weird. Now I know your position. Have you fully stated it to Richard? The tone of some of those emails started to look threatening and it seemed like the relationship was going bad - for an unknown reason.

Everyone associated with this venture is busting their butt on the plan that it will take off. For me, it is often 10 hour days in Sacramento coupled with a 2 and a half hrs on the road - then work at home - and I am not getting paid at this time. It is not lost on me that I no longer bring in $10,000 plus a month and am spending a lot just to keep filled with gas.

But, this company has potential. Didn't you start as a volunteer with the website that Richard designed? In a sense, I am also a volunteer.

When I first came to Kamado, Richard mentioned (and has all along) people that will benefit when we make it. You were one. However, we are not there yet.

Richard indicated that you were once thinking of opening a store and he was looking for another way to get you into some longer term compensation by opening stores in the San Diego area. I think he wrote about getting some units and driving them around, but you indicated that you wanted pay instead and weren't going to do anything else. That was the first of the emails that was strange reading.

Is your effort overlooked or unappreciated - NO. But, in the end you've got to believe that the company will work, or you have to bail. And, you have to keep "shortly" in perspective. I am juggling a lot of those every day.

How much time are you spending on the website? Want help? I have no qualms about going in and changing things, but I know you got a little mad at Bill when he made some changes.

Hang in there, if you can. I am treading water and don't want to sink.

Also, don't believe everything you read in business journals. If all true, we would have some money.

Brad

________________________________

And this is from the L.A. distributor when I consulted him about RJ’s final response:
________________________________

From: [L.A. distributor]
Sent: Monday, September 20, 1999 11:46 AM
To: Charlie Brown
Subject: Re: nice day

Chaz-
that’s great that all the officers work for free! 12 hour a day (in a hogs ass) and they DO have an INTEREST in the co. I was working for an interest in the co as well, but if you add up that interest now it would equal 1 cup of soup at a free soup kitchen! its the same bullshit. what interest? 1%,2% or what if there is no fixed amount (like i am sure brad just quit his job and gave dick a bunch of his $ with no deal for exactly what "interest" he would be getting in the co.)no, he got a deal because that was the condition i.e. 10% and vice president etc. laborers at the plant must be paid in $ so they can live. all others (yourself, myself and the other dealers)are to be paid at a later date, but when? or how much? this will be determined by the same man (dick) who has fucked everybody in town in order to further his goals. and even at that time his decision will be affected by all the others whom he has promised an "interest" or piece of the pie. i can see a bit down the road, dick,selling this whole operation to green egg for whatever he can get and fleeing town! this is an attempt to stall you and to test you at the same time in my opinion. i think you were right back when you said they were thinking of taking the page "in house" consider this: if he owes you 10ks now and you were to tell him thank-you, i'll take them and i quit. do you think you will ever get them?(it took me 8 mo. to get my 10 with the $ wired to his bank!) and if you continue to work for him you may go further in debt. however, if you quit as web m. now, your bargaining position will drop tremendously. what to do ? i myself have decided to quit, but first i must try to get my $ how i do in this venture may help you to decide. -

________________________________

So I let it drop and moved on and decided to be “patient”. I think almost seven years is patient enough. Strangely, it sounds like things at the current facility haven't changed much in all that time.

[foxhound]

Clearly sweat equity lacks liquidity. Does anyone know at what point Brad and Bill left Kamado? This venture has been under-capitalized from the beginning. RJ certainly knew how to circumvent traditional financing. Bankers aren't nearly as patient. Or...perhaps he never qualified for financing.

Why did RJ shut down the original venture if it was successful? In his offering he refers to all the units sold in the first venture. Is there an actual bankruptcy in the past?

From what I read between the lines here, RJ has other assets and income to be able to survive this long without drawing salaries, or money has been pulled out of the corp in a more 'discreet' manner to live and support a family on. I don't think anyone would dispute the business has been a full time effort, but you don't live and support a family on sweat equity and promises.

[curly]

Apparently it's done well enough to support him and his family quite well, especially since he has screwed every other investor. He's apparently putting two daughters through college now.

He still has the hangers on that are hoping that worthless stock will one day be worth more than a plug nickel. He's been a crummy business man with a great product and a great con man for many many years.

I really cannot wait to hear that the business has finally imploded or that he has been arrested or something to that effect.

[Gerard]

Ah yes, I remember a certain dealer getting a bellyful and finally exploding on the K forum. It was such a rant my eyes hurt afterwards. Of course it was deleted.

His initials were SJ. Same guy?

[curly]

Why so secretive...initials and all? Why not just use his name. You're such a fraidy-cat all the time