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CrookedRichard
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:00 pm    

Mr. Sh**storm speaks!
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RJ seems to have his Depends in a tight wad over the latest NakedWhiz review...

The Inventor of All Things Kamado wrote:

Doug Hanthorn dba Nakedwhiz is representing himself or is taken to be the self crowned authority in charcoal and other products by his “testing” and “reviews”. Doug does not have the experience, education or the laboratory testing equipment to properly do a review and can often mislead our customers and more important, many other large manufactures. His good “review” and/or “test” are often prejudiced or influenced by what a manufacturer or distributor will “give him” or advertise on his website. In my opinion this is unethical and misleading.
Doug Hanthorn of the Nakedwhiz has “reviewed” or “tested” a few pieces from boxes of more than 100,000 boxes of my Kamado Extruded Coconut Charcoal I have sold. I don’t know exactly what the source of the charcoal Doug has tested and if I don’t know I am sure Doug does not know what or when this charcoal was made or shipped. This is hardly the way legitimate tests are conducted. Many of you have been evolved with UL and other testing labs and are familiar with the procedure of obtaining sample for testing purposes and recognize how insane these “test” are, however, many take these authoritative or legitimate.

I have purchased and shipped from processors in three countries and obtained carbonized charcoal from dozens of small and large supplies of the raw carbonized coconut shells. Since the main use of carbonized coconut shells is for filters of many types but all requiring strict control of the product by recognized laboratories with the proper testing engineers, testing process, and extensive laboratory equipment. These are not a back yard, uneducated and unskilled test or review but rather governmental controlled, licensed and certified product that we buy to use in our Kamado product.

I introduced Extruded Coconut to the USA and some other countries years ago on my desire to provide a better charcoal for our Kamado customers. The intention was not to make a profitable business (which it certainly has not been) but to provide an ecological and quality raw material in which to carbonize and make into briquettes or lump. Finding a renewable source for Lump has been achieved in its natural form after carbonizing properly. Government and Laboratory Certified coconut carbonized coconut shells, granulated or natural is relatively easy also by following the “Filter” suppliers trail. There are more than five producing countries with excellent properly carbonized coconut charcoal.

The key to our Kamado Extruded Coconut is to use the best certified carbonized coconut shells we can find in which to extrude. How dense or what size granulated mesh size is not important in the quality. We can make “pillow” briquettes, blocks, hexagon, with holes, no holes with much the same results…..a fine charcoal because it starts with a excellent raw material. I have used charcoal longer than any one I know, I have been in the mud and blood of manufacturing, sourcing, testing, research and realize I know little and have much to learn. Much of what I have learned about charcoal is from PROFESSIONALS and learned first hand to be careful to not be influenced by persons who don’t know what they are talking about in regard to charcoal, ceramics or design.

Certain restaurants cook indoors requiring emission certification. This not obtained by a Nakedwhiz “smell test” or my “over the stove” but rather from an recognized laboratory. Please see an example of one in the USA or UL’s website. To represent to the public, such as the Nakedwhiz does, is a misrepresentation of emissions, by relying on his “smoke test” and MANY other comments on his “test” results from my or other manufacturers.

Our KEC boxes are very close to the same size and same weight. Pictures might show the broken briquette to look different inside because of the mesh size of the coconut shells. Surprising, the same size box, weighing much the same with the same BTU output might have much different in appearance inside the briquette. I have subtitle reasons for this briquette structure. In an “open burn” situation a certain briquette extrusion structure might be better; or if a faster starting is desired I can accommodate this. In “closed burn”, such as our Kamados, we control the air flow to control the rate of burn. For example, if a 16 pound box have a faster burning briquette and the same amount of BTU, the rate of burn will be much the same because of the airflow. When burning natural coconut shells (not extruded or compressed) weighing 16 the can be totally consumed in a matter of minutes in an uncontrolled burn. However, 16 pounds in a controlled burn (Kamado) the length of the burn will be much the same as a briquette.

I recognize that a customer’s taste/use of charcoal is very subjective, my goal is to have the best charcoal and if anyone doesn’t like the charcoal they are always free to return the box(s), not accept them or cancel their order.. I would suggest, however, they not be influenced by someone who is prejudiced, uniformed, uneducated and ill prepared or equipped to publicizing tests that are misleading and should be done by done by professionals.

Please note that I did not authorize shipping any charcoal to the Nakedwhiz for testing or anything else. It was a mistake for our office to have shipped samples or boxes. It was and is a mistake to allow him to post on our website and I trust Doug will no longer use our forum for his misleading comments but is always welcome back when he knows what he is talking about. [/color]
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primeats



Joined: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 65
Location: Chicago's North Shore, Iowa transplant

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:21 pm    

mr.poopoo
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Unless you make this stuff in small batches( like when we make our sausages), the uniformitty should be identical. If Mr. J. was any kind of business man he would have htis stuff tested himself! I have it on good authority that he uses a supplier that only sells the absolute lowest quality and it had in the past gotten very good reviews from TNW. I guess the workers could have gotten the formula mixed up with the Kamado formula after a weeklong binge. But thats just my guess. Laughing
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fishtail-99



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 1437

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:26 pm    

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Perhaps someone could dredge up all the posts where RJ thanked TNW for the great reviews and how much charcoal it helped him sell? lol, what a world RJ lives in....
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CrookedRichard
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:50 pm    

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fishtail-99 wrote:
Perhaps someone could dredge up all the posts where RJ thanked TNW for the great reviews and how much charcoal it helped him sell? lol, what a world RJ lives in....


Ask ..... Receive.....


Quote:
Richardj
Moderator
Post Number: 1884
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 11:49 am:

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------
Open Letter to Thenakedwhiz re KINGSFORD LUMP

I would like to make it clear that I do NOT in anyway recommend or support this kINGSFORD product on this website. I am quite familiar with this and other Brazilian “hardwood lump” charcoal that are unregulated in the source. I have flown over and been in the devastation that is being done to the rain forest. I do not intend to be part of the “Green” movement, but I certainly will not participate or support such products as these.


We all think you are doing an excellent job in presenting and rating the products. However, your rating system, in my opinion, does not rate the most important thing, and that is the source. I would hope you would include a category for “Zero Minus” or “Don’t Buy” on such products as the one reviewed. I don’t care how good, bad or cheap.
Richard
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CrookedRichard
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:54 pm    

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fishtail-99 wrote:
Perhaps someone could dredge up all the posts where RJ thanked TNW for the great reviews and how much charcoal it helped him sell? lol, what a world RJ lives in....


Another, perhaps?

Quote:
Richardj
Moderator
Post Number: 1022
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 1:44 pm:

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------
I have the record number of hours using Kamado Extruded Coconut Charcoal, including the last few days using Coconut. I have never seen anything quite like TNW's. I have seen something similar in very high tests where no food was being used (it would cremate it).

TNW’s tests were performed in a small or #1 BGE with a large amount of extruded coconut. I suggest that sell you’re your small and “Big” GE for whatever you can get and get a #7 Kamado and join us…..and live happy ever after. I will make you a “deal” you can’t resist and a tile color your wife will love.
In other words, we would love to have you do your excellent tests on our Kamado(s) as the testing really should be under very similar conditions.
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CrookedRichard
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:15 pm    

HA! You can't argue with this little gem!
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Kreator of all things Krapado wrote:
In my opinion this is unethical and misleading.



If anyone on God's green Earth knows unethical and misleading, it's RJ!
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foxhound
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:37 pm    

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RJ gets very surly and goes on offense whenever he gets called out. He will never take responsibility for his shortcomings. But what the hell....he may be inspired to announce some other business improvement....that is his usual response to this kind of issue!

On another note...I wonder what happened to the koal dealer in LA that he announced last year.
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foxhound
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:43 pm    

RJ gets a reply
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I thought I would post this great response to RJ's tirade since I would expect this thread will get deleted:

Quote:







Bootlegger
Member
Post Number: 32
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 5:30 pm:

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------
Richard,
As a multi-K owner with a pending order for 25 boxes of KEC, I am concerned about differences TNW has pointed out between the old koal and the current supply.

While you are right, and as The Whiz acknowledges, his test regimen is not 'testing lab' intensive. But it does seem to be just the kind of comparisons a consumer would do if he could. The Whiz has performed a service for all of us by standardizing the comparison process over many many products. I do not see a bias on his part.

You produce a dynamite cooker and all who own one would likely agree. But that is not the question. As a user of Kamado KEC, I wonder what happened to quality control on the KEC. Differences in appearance, density or hardness of the koal have been mentioned on this forum by other members. Their comments support the Whiz.

You are obviously very upset with the Whiz and you have attacked him aggressively. You say - he is "someone who is prejudiced, uniformed, uneducated and ill prepared or equipped to publicizing tests that are misleading and should be done by done by professionals.'"

What did he do that was so different from what any of us would do? Do you suggest that only 'professionals' are qualified to make comparisons/judgements? What does that say about your long-term customers opinions?

You said it was a mistake to have sent him samples ("It was a mistake for our office to have shipped samples or boxes") .... would it have been a mistake if his review had been positive? And wasn't he welcome on this forum based on his review of the old koal?

Rather than rip the Whiz, I would like you to address the points raised in his review - fast burn, less density, higher amount of fines, high ash, no leftover koals. I don't see you denying what he says ... just attacking him. Attacks do not help me (and maybe others) make a decision. Addressing his points would.

To be fair, I would like to hear from anyone who has received some of the new koal for their observations. That would eliminate the bias you accuse the Whiz of.
Don

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foxhound
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:45 pm    

Alanz's order
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It will be interesting to see if Alanz speaks up since he was part of the order for NJ. Of course that order also is long overdue for shipping.
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foxhound
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:50 pm    

more from RJ
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In the interest of preserving the thread:

Quote:




Richardj
Moderator
Post Number: 2246
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 6:26 pm:

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------
Don, I thought I explained as clearly as I know how about our charcoal and why I do not accept the tests or the testing methods he uses. I don't mean to attack him, I am just stating the facts as I know them. It takes a lot more than a box out of 100,000 or one test every 3 years or so.

I don't represent myself as a testing lab or a review of other products good or bad, publicly or privately. I try to make the best products I can and to continually make improvements, including what I am making today.

I have the utmost respect and interest in what our customers opinion and comments are. Doug is not one of our customers and never has been to my knowledge. Right or wrong, I feel he is biased against our products and above all I don't think he is qualified to rate products such as these on a simi commercial or commercial website without clearly stating his qualifications and methods for doing so.

Finally, I don't often disagree with something I agree with and in this case I guess I should have mentioned something about Whiz's earlier review. I think my comments this date are clearly applicable to any or all of Whiz's reviews.

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primeats



Joined: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 65
Location: Chicago's North Shore, Iowa transplant

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:25 pm    

Quote from TNW taken from their own site
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The bottom line is that we aren't professional lump evaluators. We don't claim to have any special abilities. Our reviews are obviously going to reflect our personal opinions about what makes good lump, but we hope that if nothing else, the photographs will help you form your own opinions about each brand of lump. By trying to conduct the same test on each brand of lump, we may not be able to produce absolute results, but rather results you can use to compare brands against each other.
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primeats



Joined: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 65
Location: Chicago's North Shore, Iowa transplant

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:28 pm    

THE NAKED WHIZ
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forgot to add the URL ...http://www.nakedwhiz.com/lumpdatabase/lumpbag62.htm
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Admin
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Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 1018

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:48 am    

HAHAHAHAHAHA
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This thread made my day!

hahahaha!

Twisted Evil
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foxhound
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:37 am    

methodology
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Richard is attacking the methodology of TNW in an attempt to divert from the real issue, the decreased quality of the product. This is how he always responds, surly and offensive. He can't defend the real issue that he has to keep changing suppliers so there will not be any consistency in the product.

RJ and the family always portray themselves as victims, rather than taking responsibility and handling basic business. They ignore customers with problems then attack them when they use the forum. And yet the forum remains the only way to get a response from them. They wonder why the problem persists. They hide behind their phones and the internet.

But it appears one of their biggest defenders is growing weary:

Quote:
Can't we all just get along!
Kamado Discussion Forum » The Kampfire » Can't we all just get along! « Previous Next »


Author Message

The_handler
Member
Post Number: 91
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 4:57 am:

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------
After all we're into barbeque right?

You know what I think would make most of us K'ers happy? What that is in my opinion is getting back to the the topics that most of us enjoy reading and participating in. I know some of you as well as what some of my previous post have expressed will insist, what's commented on out in the open is needed and called for. However, the forum is not fun anymore. I've only tolerated the last six months, I've not enjoyed them. Lately if you want to find post about this or that you have to dig up old threads. This post is just my feelings expressed.

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tcoliver



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 240

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:47 pm    

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Hey RJ, heres a bit of business advice. If you pay your suppliers they will continue to give you good products. When you screw your suppliers and don't pay your bills you get what you pay for (or should I say don't pay for). Quit wining and PAY YOUR BILLS this will eliminate the need for all this banter.
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